tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15037609.post4275723869442515572..comments2023-10-01T16:53:17.274+01:00Comments on Cicero's Songs: Setting out a Liberal FutureCicerohttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02090838836212624633noreply@blogger.comBlogger10125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15037609.post-73983320388512869392007-10-17T16:56:00.000+01:002007-10-17T16:56:00.000+01:00Oh dear Lepidus- how old are you? You really would...Oh dear Lepidus- how old are you? You really would be a prat if you beleived that- even at worst we have generally retained some seats. <BR/><BR/>In any event, we have two years with very different conditions ahead. So. he who laughs last, laughs loudest- BTW if you were actually serious when you talked about the Lib Dems being closer to the Conservatives then you might try to engage your brain a bit.Cicerohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02090838836212624633noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15037609.post-80808320320593633282007-10-17T16:09:00.000+01:002007-10-17T16:09:00.000+01:00Just for you Cicero:Party 2005 Votes 2005 Seats Pr...Just for you Cicero:<BR/><BR/><BR/>Party 2005 Votes 2005 Seats Pred Votes Pred Seats <BR/>CON 33.24% 209 39.61% 271 <BR/>LAB 36.21% 346 37.83% 338 <BR/>LIB 22.65% 66 12.39% 0 <BR/><BR/>This last bit is wonderful isn't it. Lol<BR/><BR/>LepidusAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15037609.post-65245891549046055162007-10-17T09:44:00.000+01:002007-10-17T09:44:00.000+01:00Unabashed Liberal - or should I call you Classical...Unabashed Liberal - or should I call you Classical Liberal?<BR/><BR/>You are totally incorrect in your analysis that the Liberal Democrats have lost relevance in politics. We are the only party who are offering a vision of a country with a real conscience and direction instead of just managing the status quo. What other major party is actively trying to stop the replacement of Trident? Who puts human rights forward, starting in the UK but not ending there; and has for a long time realised that the environment is at the centre of all policies? The Liberal Democrats. You would have us return to the days when Andrew Undershaft would be proud to be called a Liberal.<BR/><BR/>You are right though that the other two parties are scrambling for when the largest concentration of votes are thought to be. Just like the Republicans and Democrats: two parties with one idealology. That is not democracy and must be avoided here at all costs.<BR/><BR/>I would advise you to try pouring your words into the ears of the Tory Party instead although I'm sure Gordon Brown would also give you a fair hearing.Martin Vearthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03836538893598716215noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15037609.post-79341096931746663162007-10-16T17:58:00.000+01:002007-10-16T17:58:00.000+01:00The problem is that the LibDems have lost their ra...The problem is that the LibDems have lost their raison d'etre. The roots of the SD side of the "alliance" was created when Labour went left and there was no one to fight the centre. Now you have Gordo and Flake fighting over the centre to the anger of both of their cores.<BR/><BR/>The best path the LibDems can pursue is pure liberalism, and shed as much of the SD as possible. Unabashed liberalism, which will give the electorate a REAL choice.<BR/><BR/>Whoever the leader is makes less of a difference if the party continues to pursue this insane hybrid liberalism/socialism that has been its staple since its merger.<BR/><BR/>Cicero, sure, you can argue these things at a higher, philosophical level. But remember the average electorate in Buxton, Ullapool, Rye and Llangollen. They won't want a debate, they want a better future. If you and the party truly believes in liberalism, it has to be pursued with less inhibition.<BR/><BR/>Then, perhaps, the leadership battle would mean a lot more.<BR/><BR/>Unabashed liberalAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15037609.post-43614188219148261102007-10-16T17:20:00.000+01:002007-10-16T17:20:00.000+01:00It shall be interesting Consul, I doubt you'll be ...It shall be interesting Consul, I doubt you'll be back to taxi meetings like Baxter suggests (we can dream!), but you are rapidly making the Tories look a paragon of loyalty. Everyone raves about Clegg but I suspect Huhne is the man he just has that weight that Clegg lacks, plus of course he can appeal to both sandal wearers and Orange bookers. But unless you can take seats off Labour you were always going to be vulnerable. You have not after all broken your Historic Tory link<BR/><BR/><BR/>LepidusAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15037609.post-20808028841152680372007-10-16T13:40:00.000+01:002007-10-16T13:40:00.000+01:00Cicero, you well know my view on Sir Ming's leader...Cicero, you well know my view on Sir Ming's leadership and role in the party. It is true what you write that he has achieved many creditable things in the party and have given us the foundation to press ahead. I sincerely hope Ming offers his services to the new leader for a front-bench post. Ming was not the man to lead us in the country though. Our party's visibility has shrunk since he took control. You are right in saying that the new leader has much to do. It will not be enough for him (or her?) to look the part but we as a party have to capture peoples' attention with our ideas and policies.Martin Vearthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03836538893598716215noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15037609.post-27624496553417207272007-10-16T13:14:00.000+01:002007-10-16T13:14:00.000+01:00One might argue that all tax is robbery (it is at ...One might argue that all tax is robbery (it is at least demanding money with menaces).<BR/><BR/>Taxation is however deemed necessary (except by anarchists) and it is the only acceptable form of robbery in a liberal society (and then it should be kept to a minimum).<BR/><BR/>To tax the poor the same amount as the rich is (rightly) seen as unjust, so surely progressive taxation is the least worst option.<BR/><BR/>(Of course, Mill was not perfect, only a fool would ever claim that - we are all human)Tristanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15395992764678278326noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15037609.post-52590825625053338652007-10-16T12:46:00.000+01:002007-10-16T12:46:00.000+01:00He also described progressive taxation as a 'form ...He also described progressive taxation as a 'form of robbery'. I trust therefore that LD policy, or at least your own posting, will be thus influenced by the great man! Otherwise, you might conceded he was oft times wrong.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15037609.post-62004319067762925402007-10-16T11:26:00.000+01:002007-10-16T11:26:00.000+01:00Well, only one response for that:"Conservatives ar...Well, only one response for that:<BR/><BR/>"Conservatives are not necessarily stupid, but most stupid people are conservative." - John Stuart Mill (1806-1873)Cicerohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02090838836212624633noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15037609.post-5429784356300220512007-10-16T10:35:00.000+01:002007-10-16T10:35:00.000+01:00J,You usethe term 'intellectually incoherent' in s...J,<BR/><BR/>You usethe term 'intellectually incoherent' in such a pejorative fashion. We Tories do not require intellect, indeed clever chaps are far to bustling and inclined to change things to be good Conservatives. Please buck up your ideas in future (if I can write that phrase without endorsing the whole spurious notion of ideas as worthy).<BR/><BR/>Chin, Chin,<BR/><BR/>WheatleyAnonymousnoreply@blogger.com